Mr. Kaplan is the "problem student" in a very diverse class. He does not understand things the way the other students do although he truly feels that he is on the right track. He is disruptive by talking aloud as he thinks and takes pride when other students make mistakes. He does not seem to progress throughout the class and doesn't care if he passes the class or not.
I'd like to discuss the following:
Have you had a student like this and if so, how have you dealt with it?
If you have not had a student similar to Mr. Kaplan, how do you see yourself handling this situation when it arises (and I bet it will!)?
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OMG, I have had several learners in my classes who have either came internally to my classroom or have come from other financial institutions. Unfortunately, they appear to be unable to understand how people learn, and with their input impact the learning process for others.
ReplyDeleteI am one to think "feedback is a gift", and am able to handle this mainly by providing direct feedback in hopes that their actions will change. However, if the behavior does not change, I am forced to address the issue with them and their leader in an effort to protect the learning process of other learners.
I had this problem with the kids all the time...but I don't think you'd handle adults the same way you'd handle the kids...you just can't take away a recess :) As far as adults go, I have one teacher who I refer to as my "bear." She is still teaching like it is the 80's and is not open to change. Whenever it is my time to get up and facilitate our staff development, she gets up and walks out of the room. If she decides to stay, I tend to get eyes rolled at me and only minimal work produced. I've had to tell myself it is not me that she has the issue with, it is the content I am presenting. She is the only one in the meetings that takes issue with anything and everything. Therefore, the whole staff realizes this as well. We all simply ignore the behavior. It is my opinion that she is not going to hold back everyone else, they deserve the information. If I go to battle with her (which I did a few times) things escalate and we end up wasting precious time. Other teachers get upset and I need to think about the group as a whole, not just one person. Our hope is that is everyone is moving forwarde, maybe, just maybe, she'll slowly move too.
ReplyDeleteHaving taught ESL at the HS level with varying refugee populations - this situation arises frequently. You have to develop rapport and mutual respect with learners; acknowledge behavior and redirect.
ReplyDeleteWhen I taught at the college level or adults period - you set the tone/expectations for the learning exchange. If I have a disruptor, you pretty much disrupt the disruptor in a polite; but firm way. The local college I taught at had a code of ethics (or something) - one being behavior can not interfere with the learning of others. I have had private conversations with students who were negatively impacting my ability to teach and other students ability to learn. I've even engaged school counselors to observe the dynamic and they made the decision to remove the disruptor from the setting (legal issues - so good to have chain of command process to resolve.) I've had clashing student personalities that came nearly to blows and security called - you try conflict resolution and other attempts to remedy situation. But bottom line it's my class and if a student can not reasonably adhere to the code of conduct - they will be invited to leave.
To Sarah - Just reading your post frustrated me! What a difficult situation.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Amanda's discussion question: I think one major thing Hyman Kaplan has going for him is that he truly LOVES his classes and learning. Yes, he is certainly disruptive and doesn't adhere to the instructor's goals and objectives for class. But, in the end, he really seems to get out of class what he wanted.
So, from the standpoint of an instructor, it can be tough to have this type of student in class. But, if I know that student achieved what s/he wanted to, I'd have to think of the class as a success. (One good reason to have student let you know their goals for a course!)
Luckily I have not had a situation like this. My lab classes are only about 10-12 students and they are in the same group/classes together for their 2 years in the OTA program.
ReplyDeleteThere are the normal group dynamics involved, but they groups have been respectful of each other and the faculty.
The more I'm in front of a class versus being a learner among other learners, the more I'm amazed at how easy it is to distinguish personalities relatively quickly. For those of you who have been teaching for a while, this comes as no surprise, I'm sure. Yet, for someone like me who has taught patients individually about their healthcare needs, mentored one on one in feng shui (certified 13 years ago), taught private art lessons one on one, student taught in studio art courses, and now facilitates occasionally for adult ed Extension courses, the difference between 1:1 and being in front of a group...geez and hallelujah...what an awakening!
ReplyDeleteI recently facilitated a water-wise landscaping community ed class with our local Extension director. We had 15 learners for a 4-hour workshop, one of whom was on every organic, natural bandwagon as we moved through the units. It was as if she "needed" everyone to understand her devout conscientiousness about health and gardening. Now, I'm a pretty organic person by nature but this was over the top, in my opinion. It was disruptive for the group. Brilliantly though, after a few trademark comments by this person, our Extension director kindly said he'd be happy to talk more about her concerns after class. She sat back and relaxed into the workshop and didn't stay to talk with Kurt when the workshop was over.
Sometimes people just need to know we're listening, I think.
I think it would be a bit more difficult in an on-line course, to address a difficult student, because some of the obvious signs or signals cannot be seen. But, one sign would be inappropriate comments posted in discussions, but then maybe it's not inappropriate just personal interpretation, how do you decide, especially if other students take issue with the comments.
ReplyDeleteAnother issue could be student-to-student conflict of opinions, but how do you tell when an on-line debate has gone bad??
One way to address or assist on-line difficult students would be to establish a list of conduct and appropriate behavior as part of the syllabus.
Thank you to everyone for posting and answering my question. I find it interesting the different ways people handle difficult students (and fellow co-workers). I often wonder if sometimes I am the one not "getting it" in a class because sometimes my way of thinking seems so different than everyone else in the class. So I have probably been the "problem" student a time or two. But are these learners really a "problem" or do they just interpret meaning differently? As someone mentioned, I think listening to the learner is important, and talking with this person in order to understand where he/she is coming from could alleviate some of the frustration of the teacher. As Leann mentioned, finding out what the learner expectations are could help with this as well - this is a concept that I have only heard about in adult education classes...perhaps this could be incorporated into science classes as well. :)
ReplyDeleteTo LaVerne's comments about establishing a code of online conduct in the syllabus...this is exactly what was done in a course I enrolled in at University of Wisconsin/Stevens Point. I need to pull that info out and look at it again! I've also heard the term "Netiquette" used for online behavior suggestions. It can alleviate a few headaches right up front by setting some simple expectations.
ReplyDeleteI have had a Hyman Kaplan learner just this past weekend! It was the most amazing thing - the guy thought he was more educated on the subject than myself and the Division of Wildlife biologist that was teaching with me. Combined, we had 35 years of direct wildlife experience adn this guy was telling us over and over in many different instances, in front of 35 people, that he knew differently that we did. The whole audience was annoyed - you could see it on thier faces. This was also a family program so the way we handled it was to ask that only questions be asked and that anyone under the age of 16 was able to ask them. Adults were to ask questions at the end. It seemed to work ok. The problem was the guy would just blurt out and blatantly interrupt. ARGH!
ReplyDeleteIn response to LaVerne's post about handling this type of issue online, I think it is appropriate for the instructor of the course to talk/email with the person who is posting innappropriate or unrelated material to discussion and remind them of the "rules." Even adults need reminders. :)
Did you have a chance to talk with your HK learner after the class? His continued interruptions after your intervention speaks more to someone who is socially challenged!
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